Friday, June 12, 2009

Rebuttal of Ron Varner

Rebuttal of pastor ron varner by russell kelly, June 11, 2009

Ron: Quoted 1 Cor 16:2

Russ: 1 Cor 16:2 is in the context of 16:1 "Now concerning the collection for the saints in Judea." It is NOT about tithing. It is NOT about local church support. It is NOT about pastoral wages.

Ron: Quoted 2 Cor 9:7

Russ: This is in the context of the same collection for the saints and all of 2 Cor 8 and 9. It is one of many very good freewill giving principles and is NOT a discussion of tithing.

Ron: Three vital truths come to mind regarding the importance of our giving, beloved, the first of which is that God has made it compulsory. In both Old and New Testaments the command is clearly and succinctly stated, revealing to us that obedient giving in all the commodities of life is no option:

Russ: This is an outright lie. There is not a single text to the Church after Calvary where God has made tithing compulsory. In fact the true biblical tithe was always only food from inside Israel. Although money was very common even in Genesis and essential for sanctuary worship, money was never included in 16 texts which describe the contents of the tithe. Jesus, Peter and Paul did not quality as tithe-payers and neither did the poor nor those who lived outside Israel. Period.

Ron: In fact so compulsory is the act of faithful giving, beloved, that God said to His people through Malachi that not to be obedient in this area is actually to "rob God" (3:8)!

Russ: Have you ever read Galatians 3:10? "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." (1) The Gentiles and the Church were never under the tithing laws (Ex 19:5-6; Lev 27:34). (2) Galatians 3:10-13 clearly replaces Malachi 3:10-12 for Hebrews. (3) God does not curse Christians in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.

Ron: Thus, for us ever to consider not giving according to the leading of God's Spirit is an act of rebellion against the God who has provided all of our needs. …

Russ: Freewill giving --yes. Tithing --no.Ron: Quotes Malachi 3:10.

Russ: Have you ever read Nehemiah 10:37? "And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage." The people were normally to bring their tithes --not to the Temple-- but to the Levitical cities. According to 10:38 the Levites and priests were responsible for bringing tithes to the Temple. Therefore Mal 3:10 must only be addressed to the dishonest priests of Mal 1:6-14; 2:1-9 and 2:17-3-7.

Ron: Quotes Luke 6:38.Russ: Luke 6:38 is not a tithing text. NT giving to the Church after Calvary is: freewill, generous, sacrificial, joyful, not by commandment and motivated by love for God and others. Ron: It is difficult to imagine God expecting us to expect Him to bless us, beloved, but that is precisely what the Scriptures reveal to us! We cannot imagine that God's command for us is that we "give to get," yet that is without a doubt what is woven into His eternal plan of economy for us.

Russ: Tithing does not work because the church is under the New Covenant. If tithing actually worked then tens of thousands of ghetto dwellers who have been "tithing" for generations would have long ago received overflowing blessings.

Ron: As surely as His requirement for us to give faithfully is compulsory in every sense of the word, it is also just that much compensatory in that we should expect Him to pour out His blessings upon us.

Russ: No evidence. There are thousands of atheists and agnostics who prosper financially without tithing.Russell Earl Kelly, PHD

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