Sunday, October 25, 2009

Reply to Frances; SDA Sabbath Questions


Kelly: Have you really read all of the book? Many of my comments are found in the book.

Your Question:
17. Is there any evidence that the seven-day weekly cycle was universally known through general revelation before Exodus 16?

Answer. Origin of the week:
Gen. 1 and 2, Also Gen. 7:4, 8:10,12. 29:27, 28, In the kinds of question that you have, it looks like you are not a Christian guided by the holy spirit Bro. Russel.

- Universally known means to all the people who exist during that time Mr Russell? Is that what you mean? So do you expect that the Pagan worshiper during that time will follow this cycle without knowing the God of the bible and the Creation? “Definitely not”, but to the people of God in the Bible, Yes. It is universally Known as what the above verses of the Bible is telling us.

Kelly Reply: Your very first comment is pompous, arrogant, derogatory and ridicules those who disagree with you. If I am not a Christian guided by the Spirit, then why do you call me 'Brother'?

Kelly: The God of creation has placed within every soul a knowledge of his moral law. Although very clouded, most non-Hebrew and non-Christian cultures know by creation, nature and conscience that is wrong to violate the moral parts of the Law which reflect God's character. All creation knows that time should be set aside to worship God. However, however, however, creation and nature do not teach that the specific 7th day of the week is a moral imperative. Why? The cultic 7th day Sabbath day was only given to national Israel who was commanded NOT to share it with other nations.

Your Question:
18. Did the ancient Sumerians and Babylonians have a seven-day (7) week because they worshipped 7 heavenly bodies such as the Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Uranus and Saturn?

Answer: Yes if you have notice the name of the Days that we have today from Monday to Saturn day!! That’s were this names came from.
This is a logic question and maybe needs a logic answer also, which is not all the time is applicable in the words of God in the scripture; “It is very simple logic that this People you have mention, the ancient Sumerians and Babylonians who worship other “gods” like what have you’ve mention above are none believers of the God of the Bible,. That’s also the reason why they are not the believer of Seventh day cycle in some other ways and of the creation that have mention by the God of the Bible.. Maybe your one of them Mr. Russel Earl Kelly?

Take note. That Israel is the only chosen people who believes in the God of the Bible during there time. So don’t compare them to this unGodly people that you have mentions above.

Kelly: Again you chose to insult me. Do you get some kind of sadistic pleasure in insulting others? If it makes you feel superior, then go right ahead.

Kelly: Again you miss the point that the 7th day Saturday Sabbath is unique to national Israel and is not part of God's eternal moral law. Do you think that God had a holy Sabbath day every 7th day in heaven in eternity past?

Your Question:
19. Did the frequency of market days determine the length of the week in many nations?

Answer: every body can explain the rotation of our planet to the Sun: 1 year = 12 months = 48 weeks = 360/365days = 8640/8760hrs etc., but you cannot explain the weekly cycle that only God has appointed to have that cycle on us as His People. There are many scientific evidence that science cannot explain about the Seventh day Mr. Kelly. Like the slowing of the heart bit of the Ox, cow, etc. during the seventh day. Nature it self recognize the seven day cycle. Except you Mr. Russel.and why you are not be able to know that even you are a former SDA.

Kelly: Please explain Exodus 31:13-17. God did not give the Sabbath to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. God only gave the Sabbath to national Israel as part of its unique Old Covenant which vanished at Calvary per Heb 8:12. You are not Old Covenant national Israel. You have appropriated something which does not belong to you and that is called stealing. You have stolen the Sabbath which solely belonged to the Hebrews under the Old Covenant.

Kelly: There are tens of thousands of FORMER SDAs who have left that false denomination. Many of them are long-time former members and many of them are long-time former teachers who have had access to the deepest guarded SDA secrets. Tell me how many theologians have gone the other direction from other denominations.

Your Question:
22. Ex. 16:26 Six days you shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, in it there shall be none.

Is it evident than even Israel had not been observing any Sabbath day and that the day had been lost in history?

Answer: Because of 438years of captivity in Egypt as a slave it doesn’t mean that they have not remember the weekly cycle Mr. Russell
From Eden to Abraham:
Adam to Methusselah – Lives overlap 243years
Methusselah to shem – 100yrs
Shem to Abraham - 150yrs
No chance to forget the facts of creation and institution of Sabbath in Gen. 1&2.
Ex16:4, 5, 21-30, 35 – People knew People knew when the Sabbath came before the law was given to Sinai.

Kelly: If it were so very critically important, one would expect it to be mentioned at least once between Genesis 2 and Exodus 16. Without any Biblical evidence I have every reason to conclude that it must not have been important. It Israel had not forgotten it, then why did God need to re-introduce it in Exodus 16 as merely a day of rest and not a day of worship?

Your Question:
23. Ex. 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long do you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws?
Ex. 16:29 See, for that the LORD has given you the Sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
Ex. 16:30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

Is it not evident that the Sabbath was a law designed for only the Hebrews to observe? Does not the "you" only refer to the Hebrews?

Answer: Isaiah 66:22:23 – 22 For as the new heaven and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me. Saith the Lord, so your seed and you name remain.
23 for it shall come to pass, from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall “all FLESH” come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

- Take note that in other Bible translation written as “ALL MEN” or “all MANKIND”. Maybe you are not a flesh Mr. Russell? That’s why you have say that in your writings.

- Not After the Council of the Jew approved the stoning of Stephen in the time of the apostol in 33AD in Acts 7:59. this is the time when God open the Gospel to the Gentiles and none Israelites people. Because the Jew harden there Hearts and reject the salvation of the Cross through Jesus Christ. That’s Why we are here also as a Bible believers, but not a Literal Israel, but Spiritual Israel who believes the God of the Bible. If you believe in the God of the Bible and the scripture, that should be including the Sabbath rest for the people of Hebrew 4:9

You know Mr. Russel, even all of you that are against the Sabbath of the Lord will unite, and wiping out all of us who keep the Sabbath, the Sabbath will still remain and never be wiped out, even all we who keep the Sabbath are Gone,.. But it will never happen as history shows that the Sabbath keeping survive until this time, after so many attempt to change it. And forget it in the face of the earth. This is the only issue that will remain in the Christian world until the second coming of Christ.. So thanks for the challenge of this Questions. Hope that you can Answer this also before God, if you have make people doubt because of the Books that you have written. It is not between us (as a Sabbath keeper)and you. Its always between God and you in the end.

KELLY: How much of Isa 66 do you apply to now and how do you apply it to either the millennial kingdom on earth or eternity? You ignore its context completely.

66:l says that heaven is God's throne and earth is his footstool. SDAs say that God lives in a HP and MHP smaller than most houses.
66:10-12 says Rejoice ye with Jerusalem. SDAs say that God has rejected Israel and ignored the hundreds of unconditional promises made to Israel. SDAs do not rejoice with Jerusalem and bring the curse of Gen 12:3 upon themselves.
66:13-14 says ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. Yet SDAs have rejected God's unconditional promises to Israel and have usurped them upon themselves. SDAs will not be comforted in Jerusalem.
66:15-18 says that God will come with fire and destroy those who oppose Jerusalem. SDAs will be included if they do not correctly apply biblical prophecy to national Israel instead of themselves.
66:19-20 says that God will restore his children "to my holy mountain Jerusalem." SDAs deny this and say it will not be fulfilled by national Israel in the last days.
66:21 says "And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD." This is the fulfillment of Exodus 19:5-6 to national Israel and not to the church.
66:22-23 is a prophecy of the millennial kingdom on earth when God will fulfill his many unconditional promises made to national Israel. It is not the same as the new heavens and new earth in Revelation 21-22 because it still contains the dead rotting corpses of those (like SDAs) who oppose Israel in the last days in verse 24.

Kelly: Why do you ignore the context of the entire chapter and throw 66:21-22 out of context? Why? You only use the two texts which refer to the Sabbath out of context. Why don't you explain the entire chapter in its context, especially 66:24????

Revelation 12:17 – And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandment of God…

Take not that the Woman is represented by the Church..

Kelly: Says who? My Bible says that Christ was born of the seed of David and of the virgin Mary, a Hebrew woman. Israel, not the Church, brought forth the Christ child.

Kelly: Even if it were the Church, that was over 1800 years before the Seventh-day Adventist Church. That "church" is the same "church" which you tag as Babylon or the daughters of Babylon. Make up your mind. Did the FALSE church bring forth the Christ child?

Frances: Are your church is a Commandments keeping church like the Seventh Day Adventist Mr. Russell?

Kelly: Yes, my church keeps the commandments given to it in the New Covenant after Calvary. On the other hand your church, the SDA Church, breaks the Sabbath a hundred ways every 7th day and its children do not live long in the land of Israel (eretz).

Kelly: The Sabbath commandment is broken when:
(1) You do not own slaves.
(2) You cause others to work on the Sabbath:
A. Policemen on your very busy roads.
B. Electric power company to provide electricity.
C. Water company to provide water.
D. Telephone company to provide service.
E. Sewage workers when you flush.
F. Auto mechanics to help Sabbath breakdowns.

Kelly: By attempting to follow the vanished Old Covenant law, you have brought the curses of the whole law down upon yourselves in ignorance per Gal 3:10. On the other hand, by attempting to live a New Covenant life, I rest in the Edenic Sabbath rest in Christ's imputed righteousness 7 days a week 24 hours per day.

Frances: God bless you Brother Russell.
Bro. Frances .

Kelly: How can you justify saying that after you have called me a non-Christian without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Kelly: Believe it or nor, I believe that you are a saved born-again Christian if you have at some point accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. On the other hand, you will not grant me the same status. Before you do anything else, I ask you to explain Exodus 31:13-17.

Russell Earl Kelly, PHD

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