Tuesday, January 05, 2010

Kely to Brumbelow 1-5-10; 5PM

David to Russell: Why do you “assume” Abraham’s tithe was not voluntary? Genesis says he “gave” a tithe.

Russ: The burden of proof is on those who insist that it can only refer to either a freewill response or a response to a known law. Since you have no text to validate your claim that it was voluntary, then you should ease up on your dogmatic use of the text.David: Genesis 28:22 is a as good a definition of the tithe as anyone could ever give.

Russ: Really? Does that mean that your Baptist Church in Highlands, Texas tells members to set the conditions and bargain with God. "God bless me first and then I will tithe."

David: Moses did use Abraham and Jacob as examples of the tithe. He used them as examples of the tithe when he wrote Genesis 14 and 28. If he does not point to them again in Numbers, that has absolutely no effect on the fact he used them as examples in Genesis.

Russ: Tell me what the tithe in Genesis 14 and Numbers 18 have in common other than ten per cent. (1) One is from a pagan land and the other is from God's holy land. (2) One is ten per cent while Numbers 31 is far less from spoils of war. (3) One is pagan spoils and the other is blessed holy food from inside God's blessed holy land.

David: Maybe Moses, under the leadership of the Holy Spirit, felt he had already made his point about Abraham and Jacob tithing in Genesis and did not need to repeat it in Numbers.

Russ: "Maybe" and "maybe not." Maybe Moses did not use it to validate law-tithing because it was not a holy tithe.

David: Of course, if he had anticipated you, he may have repeated it in all five books.

Russ: You think you are cute. If you cannot defend you position, attack the person. Be serious with God's Word.

David: 1. As Tim has said, the tithe is freewill. 2. It is conditional on whether that person has an income. “All that You give me.” 3. It was a vow Jacob made, v. 20. Many since have made, and been blessed, by that vow to tithe. 4. Maybe Jacob was following the example of this grandfather Abraham.

Russ: Numbers 18:21-29 does not describe the tithe as freewill; it was demanded and expected by the law from food producers inside Israel. Jacob's tithe was conditional --his conditions! Maybe Abraham was following the example of his father and grandfather who learned it in Babylon.

David: …Hebrews 7:4 …Genesis 14:20 … (Illustration from 2010) That is a big assumption on your part.

Russ: Why would I want to make an assumption on something you made up as an illustration? We are discussing the "all" from Gen 14:20 and you are assuming that Abraham had always tithed before and continued to tithe afterwards. It seems that the worst assumption is made by you.David: I checked again. My Bible still says:“And he gave him a tithe of all.” Genesis 14:20“Of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.” -Genesis 28:22. Short, simple, to the point. That’s good enough for me.
Russ: I checked my Bible again. There are still 17 texts which limit the contents of the tithe to food from inside Israel. You have my permission to tithe all of the spoils of war you might stumble upon to your local king-priest.

David: Tim, I look forward to your future articles.

Russ: We might even turn this exchange into a book showing the arguments from both sides.

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