Monday, May 17, 2010

Reply to Elder Joshua Holdstock

From Church Tithes and

Kelly to Elder Joshua J. Holdstock: Note: This was to Tithe and not myself.

Holdstock: It sounds like you put forth a great deal of effort to further your anti-tithe agenda.

Kelly: My effort is defending God’s Word against the traditions of men. You are the one who is not dialoging from the very inspired words of God’s Word.

Holdstock: I suppose in a sense your fervor is admirable but at it's heart it is very sinister.

Kelly: Instead of telling the world what is wrong with our understanding of God’s Word, you choose to attack us.

Holdstock: Your goal is to decrease giving.

Kelly: You do not know what you are talking about. The early church of Paul’s day grew like a weed without teaching tithing. When the preacher preaches the Word of God with fervor and reminds the congregation of souls on the way to Hell without Jesus, the money comes in. Do you attack Martin Luther, D L Moody and John MacArthur? –They do/did not teach tithing and their churches and schools thrive.

Holdstock: You mingle into your argument scriptures that, according to your interpretation, prove your assertion.

Kelly: And you do not? Is not this what every preacher does? Do you listen to yourself?

Holdstock: You mingle into your arguments the morality of giving freely, as even your name declares...all the while having the underlying devilish motive to get people to stop giving.

Kelly: Stop attacking us and defend your understanding of God’s Word. Act like Jesus and Paul.

Holdstock: I would council you 'Tithe' or any other reader to this blog, to put aside your thesis, your books, your literature and your logic generated by anyone other than Apostles and Prophets of the Almighty Himself and kneel down in prayer and ask the God in Heaven, with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ to manifest the truth about tithing to you.

Kelly: This has got to be the most arrogant, audacious, authoritarian, belligerent, condescending and insulting remark I have ever seen by a person defending tithing.

Holdstock: He (the Apostle and Prophet) WILL answer you in one of two ways, 1)He will refer you to Malachi and impress upon your mind that you must, "Prove me now herewith" for it is by the actual planting of a seed that one reaps the reward of a fruitful harvest.

Kelly: If “he” (the Apostle or Prophet) answers like that, then “he” is a FALSE Apostle and/or a FALSE Prophet. The entire Old Covenant Law was a TEST –not merely tithing. Obey all to be blessed; break one to be cursed. God never commanded any Gentile to obey the Old Covenant law and a true Apostle and a true Prophet would know that.

Holdstock: or 2) You will feel the fruit of the spirit which is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith. In other words, God will answer you with a calming peaceful, loving feeling that what you pray for is right, if not you will have a stupor of thought.

Kelly: Again, John 14:26 tells me that the Holy Spirit will remind me what the Word of God teaches. I prefer the Word of God rather than touchy feely emotion.

Holdstock: When one turns to logic, intellect, and scriptural proof of a Godly principle, one is building his foundation on sandy shores and opens himself up to be deceived by men mingling their philosophies with Godly truth.

Kelly: Read your own words of blasphemy. You have just instructed us to IGNORE “scriptural proof of godly principles.” And you have the audacity to publicly write this!!!

Holdbook: Seek for personal revelation from God and there will be your answer.

Kelly: That is NOT what God’s Word teaches.
Ps 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another …


Anonymous said...


57chevypreterist said...

You are doing great Kelly!

Brian said...

I think he has you Kelly. What he is saying is scripture (ie the bible has been manipulated by man) and you cannot trust it just because it is written. You must receive your own spiritual confirmation of the truths and untruths found in the bible. I love all the flowery quotes, but in the end God's Holy Spirit will let you know what is true and what is not, not a preacher or a book.

Josh said...

"I promise that I will not delete those who disagree with me unless they are using profanity and/or are off subject."

What happened to my comment? Am I not allowed to rebut your rebuttle?

I used no profanity and I was certainly not off subject...I mean how could I be when I am only responding to your responses?

Josh said...

Mr. Kelly do you really think it arrogant, audacious, authoritarian, belligerent, condescending and insulting for someone to say, 'Kneel down and pray and ask God Himself if something is true?' Is this what they teach you in Seminary? tell the congregation not to supplicate with the Almighty? Perhaps the Apostle James got it wrong when he said pretty plainly, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." You see, you can study all the scripture, all the books, all the history you want but there is nothing, absolutely nothing! that can confirm to you with assurity that anything you read, hear, do, or say is right or wrong except the Holy Spirit. Like it or not, bringing to your remembrance what Christ has said to you (scripture) is only one part of what the Holy Spirit does, that "touchy-feely" stuff in Galatians is the other part. You can rely on scripture study AND PRAYER as I suggested above or you can chose to call a suggestion to pray "arrogant, audacious, authoritarian, belligerent, condescending and insulting." Not only have I studied, not only have I prayed but I have also planted that mustard seed of tithing by trying it out myself and it grew into a testimony that God wanted me to prove to him through tithing that He was more important to me than money and as a result the blessings of heaven have been poured out upon me. I pray that everyone can be a recipient of those blessings.