Babinski: There is nothing about scourging or crucifixion in the description of the Suffering Servant, nor any mention of the sins of the world, only of the sufferings of Israel.
Kelly: You admit too much. Even if it is only a reference to the sins of Israel, the suffering servant is an innocent sin-offering substitute for Israel. You cannot be substitute for yourself.
Kelly: “His visage was so marred more than any man” KJV. “Appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance” liberal RSV. While the text does not say HOW he was marred, scourging fits the description as well as your own speculation of disease. Like it or not, it is still a good description of what happened to Jesus.
Babinski: If you were to ask several translators what Isa. 52:14 means in context it implies his face was ugly due to disease.
Kelly: None of the translations which are legitimate contain the word “disease.” You want to hold me to an exact literal translation but you want me to accept your loose interpretation.
Babinski: You can compare translations and commentaries. But don't just read Evangelical ones, try Jewish ones and Cambridge and Oxford and Anchor Bible commentaries as well.
Kelly: The Jewish, Cambridge, Oxford and Anchor comments are liberal and PREJUDICED. They do not assume that an Omniscient God can know the future and they go to great extremes to cover up any prophecy. I see no need for them to even worship a God who is so feeble. They should disband and spend their money on better things.
Babinski: According to The Bible in Basic English: "As peoples were surprised at him, And his face was not beautiful, so as to be desired: his face was so changed by disease as to be unlike that of a man, and his form was no longer that of the sons of men."
Kelly: Reads like Sesame Street to me. It is definitely a very loose paraphrase and not an attempt at true translation at all. I reject it.
Babinski: A few verses after that The Amplified Bible, chapter 53:3-4 describes this servant: "3 He was despised and rejected and forsaken by men, a Man of sorrows and pains, and acquainted with grief and sickness …
Kelly: Thanks for reminding me how dishonest the Amplified and paraphrase Bibles are. Read the same text in the NAS, RSV, NIV and KJV. The Amplified has added the words “and sickness.”
Babinski: 4 Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses, weaknesses, and distresses) and carried our sorrows and pains [of punishment], yet we [ignorantly] considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]." The brackets are from the Amplified Bible translation.
Kelly: Again the words “sickness” and “as if by leprosy” are not found in legitimate translations such as the NAS and RSV. You resort to questionable translations in order to argue against God’s ability to know and prophesy the future.
Babinski: In brief, the servant cannot refer to Jesus because the subject of Isaiah 53, was sick, was buried with the wicked (plural) and had children and long life.
Kelly: Mt 8:17 says Jesus bare our sickness as he was healing them during his daily ministry. There is no mention that such healing marred him. (1) It is only your interpretation using a bad translation which says that the servant of Isaiah was sick. (2) Do you realize that Jesus was buried among the wicked because, for the most part, the rich wicked rulers were the only ones who could afford expensive above-ground sepulchers.
Babinski: Jesus does not fit any of these. Also read the previous chapters in Isaiah that refer to The Servant, and notice they are referring to the people of Israel, though a single individual prophet might also be view perhaps Jeremiah.
Kelly: It cannot possibly refer to the “people of Israel.” (1) In 53:3 the general population “despised him.” (2) In 53:4 he bears the sins of the people who considered him “smitten of God.” (3) In 53:5 he was punished for the people. You cannot substitute for yourself. (4) The “we” of 53:6 included the prophet (whether Isaiah or Jeremiah). (5) In 53:8 he was “cut off” for the transgressions of my people” –the writer is not speaking about himself as a prophet. (6) In 53:10 God Himself made the suffering servant a sin offering. You cannot possibly say that this is either the people in general or a prophet. Be honest to the text. (7) In 53:10 “prolong his days” follows being “cut off as a sin offering” and must refer to resurrection. This is because 53:9 says that “he had done no violence, neither was there any deceit in his mouth.” There was no person or prophet in Israel who was sinless.
Babinski: But it's a human figure, described in human fashion with no divine overtones.
Kelly: “No divine overture”??? In 53:1 “the LORD revealed.” In 53:4 “smitten of God.” In 53:6 “the LORD laid on him the iniquity of us all.” In 53:10 “it pleased the LORD to bruise him.”
Babinski: … Reading everything as a metaphor for Jesus is just not playing fair with the original text.
Kelly: You have ignored all the arguments AGAINST interpreting the texts as either Israel itself or a prophet.